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	<title>Comments on: apologies</title>
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	<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/</link>
	<description>the collision of faith and Asian American culture</description>
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		<title>By: Shanna</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not getting why race is even brought up as an issue, sorry. As a &#039;German-American&#039; it has never crossed my mind that my race has anything to  do with any particular specific expression in the church, or anything to do with what God has called me to do, or who He&#039;s called me to do it for. I did however a few years back get rid of a sweatshirt I had that had &#039;German pride&#039; written across it. I was convicted that I have looked to that as part of my identity with an aire of pride and sense of finding identity in anything other than Christ and what He is making me into. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s any different for any other race, however obvious the difference in appearance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not getting why race is even brought up as an issue, sorry. As a &#8216;German-American&#8217; it has never crossed my mind that my race has anything to  do with any particular specific expression in the church, or anything to do with what God has called me to do, or who He&#8217;s called me to do it for. I did however a few years back get rid of a sweatshirt I had that had &#8216;German pride&#8217; written across it. I was convicted that I have looked to that as part of my identity with an aire of pride and sense of finding identity in anything other than Christ and what He is making me into. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s any different for any other race, however obvious the difference in appearance.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1917</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2011 01:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1917</guid>
		<description>Brazil went through this already.  They don&#039;t describe people by geographical/cultural labels, but ONLY pigments.  Black, White, Pardo, Yellow, Indigenous.  The problem is that when you look into it further, Yellow and Indigenous are still geographical/cultural labels masked as color.  East Asia for the former and Natives for the latter.  In actuality, there are only three races in the world.  Black, White, and Pardo (Grey-Brown).

There are White Asians (Russia, Georgia, Central Asia), Pardo Asians (East Asia/Southeast Asia), and Black Asians (Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia); there are White Arabs, Pardo Arabs, and Black Arabs; there are White Hispanics, Pardo Hispanics, and Black Hispanics (Caribbean); there are White Africans, Pardo Africans, and Black Africans.  There are White Natives, Pardo Natives, and Black Natives.  Race is a color, not a geographical/cultural thing!

We have Africans, Arabs, Asians, Hispanics, and Natives that are Pardo Americans!  And they are all of the same race color.  Too bad many don&#039;t see this because they have cultural blinders on, thinking they are separate people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brazil went through this already.  They don&#8217;t describe people by geographical/cultural labels, but ONLY pigments.  Black, White, Pardo, Yellow, Indigenous.  The problem is that when you look into it further, Yellow and Indigenous are still geographical/cultural labels masked as color.  East Asia for the former and Natives for the latter.  In actuality, there are only three races in the world.  Black, White, and Pardo (Grey-Brown).</p>
<p>There are White Asians (Russia, Georgia, Central Asia), Pardo Asians (East Asia/Southeast Asia), and Black Asians (Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia); there are White Arabs, Pardo Arabs, and Black Arabs; there are White Hispanics, Pardo Hispanics, and Black Hispanics (Caribbean); there are White Africans, Pardo Africans, and Black Africans.  There are White Natives, Pardo Natives, and Black Natives.  Race is a color, not a geographical/cultural thing!</p>
<p>We have Africans, Arabs, Asians, Hispanics, and Natives that are Pardo Americans!  And they are all of the same race color.  Too bad many don&#8217;t see this because they have cultural blinders on, thinking they are separate people.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1919</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 05:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1919</guid>
		<description>Not to be a party pooper or anything but the whole &quot;Asian American&quot; thing is old news in racial studies.

Just like we no longer have European American as a designation (or African American).  Every Hispanic, Asian, Arab, Northern Africans, Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders, Natives of Alaska and America have been systematically separated and designated an illogical geographical location so that they cannot form one large COLOR group (e.g., Tan Americans or Brown Americans).  If they did, it would just expose the &quot;hidden&quot; majority of voters which is neither &quot;White&quot; nor &quot;Black&quot; but &quot;Tan.&quot;  This hypothetical group would include parts of southern Europeans (e.g., Greeks, Italians, Spanish), Near East, Arabs, Lebanese, North and East Africans,  all the others mentioned above.

The &quot;Whites&quot; appropriate the light skinned people of these groups as their own in the government Census, why shouldn&#039;t the &quot;Tans&quot; do likewise?  Just comes to show the color system is absurd and used to benefit &quot;White&quot; group and marginalize all potential threat (whether consciously or not).  Most likely consciously.

There&#039;s a short article on wikipedia called &quot;Tan Americans&quot; which will probably be taken down due to the controversial nature of proposing another racial color.  Check it out while you still can.  God bless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to be a party pooper or anything but the whole &#8220;Asian American&#8221; thing is old news in racial studies.</p>
<p>Just like we no longer have European American as a designation (or African American).  Every Hispanic, Asian, Arab, Northern Africans, Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders, Natives of Alaska and America have been systematically separated and designated an illogical geographical location so that they cannot form one large COLOR group (e.g., Tan Americans or Brown Americans).  If they did, it would just expose the &#8220;hidden&#8221; majority of voters which is neither &#8220;White&#8221; nor &#8220;Black&#8221; but &#8220;Tan.&#8221;  This hypothetical group would include parts of southern Europeans (e.g., Greeks, Italians, Spanish), Near East, Arabs, Lebanese, North and East Africans,  all the others mentioned above.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Whites&#8221; appropriate the light skinned people of these groups as their own in the government Census, why shouldn&#8217;t the &#8220;Tans&#8221; do likewise?  Just comes to show the color system is absurd and used to benefit &#8220;White&#8221; group and marginalize all potential threat (whether consciously or not).  Most likely consciously.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a short article on wikipedia called &#8220;Tan Americans&#8221; which will probably be taken down due to the controversial nature of proposing another racial color.  Check it out while you still can.  God bless.</p>
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		<title>By: Cloudyriver</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1915</link>
		<dc:creator>Cloudyriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2011 00:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1915</guid>
		<description>The first article was sad, and so is this one.

If this was a group of Black Christian American&#039;s.......or Hispanic Christian American&#039;s.....or any other race where a person could immediately identify the demographic (if that were their focus).........then apparently you wouldn&#039;t have any trouble?

Your article is not about anything but reverse-racism and even racism toward another demographic (Asian Americans).  What&#039;s the point?  Other than to point out that a bunch of Christian&#039;s, who happen to be white, and &#039;think white&#039; are somehow offending your individual sensitivities toward race and naturally occurring (not forced, not sought after because you say so) segregation?

What we don&#039;t need in this country is one more person who wants to take something that&#039;s good, and make it bad.   If you want to make sure that things represent a better blending of the Christian population, then by all means do something about it by organizing your own gathering and ensuring by all means possible that we have the proper percentage of each demographic.  But, don&#039;t pick on one or two groups out of billions of American&#039;s (who are trying to do something good here mind you).....to further the hate or anger that you clearly express.........revised or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first article was sad, and so is this one.</p>
<p>If this was a group of Black Christian American&#8217;s&#8230;&#8230;.or Hispanic Christian American&#8217;s&#8230;..or any other race where a person could immediately identify the demographic (if that were their focus)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;then apparently you wouldn&#8217;t have any trouble?</p>
<p>Your article is not about anything but reverse-racism and even racism toward another demographic (Asian Americans).  What&#8217;s the point?  Other than to point out that a bunch of Christian&#8217;s, who happen to be white, and &#8216;think white&#8217; are somehow offending your individual sensitivities toward race and naturally occurring (not forced, not sought after because you say so) segregation?</p>
<p>What we don&#8217;t need in this country is one more person who wants to take something that&#8217;s good, and make it bad.   If you want to make sure that things represent a better blending of the Christian population, then by all means do something about it by organizing your own gathering and ensuring by all means possible that we have the proper percentage of each demographic.  But, don&#8217;t pick on one or two groups out of billions of American&#8217;s (who are trying to do something good here mind you)&#8230;..to further the hate or anger that you clearly express&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;revised or not.</p>
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		<title>By: EK</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1918</link>
		<dc:creator>EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1918</guid>
		<description>I just think that people have different callings. While many Asian American pastors might share the same goals as you, Francis Chan might have completely different goals. Francis Chan, for example, nowadays focuses on teaching Christians how to become disciple makers, instead of passive consumers at church. I think people with different views and goals make Christianity more diverse (although the ultimate goal should be the same), not just different ethnicities. I don&#039;t know how &quot;Asian&quot; Francis Chan is, but I will feel uncomfortable if he pretends to be &quot;Asian&quot; when he is not. He might be very white inside because of his upbringings, and that&#039;s fine. He can&#039;t change who he is. I am sure there are many Asian American pastors who want to relate to Asian American communities and address issues that affect Asian Americans, and that is laudable. However, I think imposing that to everyone might be dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just think that people have different callings. While many Asian American pastors might share the same goals as you, Francis Chan might have completely different goals. Francis Chan, for example, nowadays focuses on teaching Christians how to become disciple makers, instead of passive consumers at church. I think people with different views and goals make Christianity more diverse (although the ultimate goal should be the same), not just different ethnicities. I don&#8217;t know how &#8220;Asian&#8221; Francis Chan is, but I will feel uncomfortable if he pretends to be &#8220;Asian&#8221; when he is not. He might be very white inside because of his upbringings, and that&#8217;s fine. He can&#8217;t change who he is. I am sure there are many Asian American pastors who want to relate to Asian American communities and address issues that affect Asian Americans, and that is laudable. However, I think imposing that to everyone might be dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1916</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 09:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1916</guid>
		<description>This issue of racism is becoming increasingly volatile as time progresses. I do not wish to minimize the struggles of Asian Americans or any other race for that matter. The Bible says we are not Greek nor Jew nor slave nor free man. We are all equal in Gods eyes. This is going to seem a contrast the verse I just quoted, but I feel the need to address this. Danny you made a comment about whites embrassing the whiteness of that particular conference. The problem is that we can&#039;t. I really don&#039;t care for supporting race based initiatives for the simple fact it promotes separation. For a conference to embrace its whiteness would be paramount to making it a racist gathering. If that particular conference or anything cites that it caters predominantly to whites then it is labelled as offensive and racist. Whether this be right in the concept that we need to do away with race based gatherings or whether it be wrong that it shows a discrimination against whites I do not know. The one point I would like for people in general, be they white, asian, Hispanic, black, or any other ethnicity is that if it is wrong for one it is wrong for all. If it is wrong for one race to say or act a certain way then in all fairness why would someone engage in a behavior that they have condemned in someone else. I understand horrible things have happened and that horrible things still happen based on race, however the only way to end racism is to end racism, not proliferate it based on our desire for racial pride and a sense of entitlement based on race. That only excels the problem. I really hope that this was received in the way it was sent. I am not attempting to stir up racial prejudices or animosities, I am seeking to stop them, on all levels. May God go with you and the salvation of Jesus Christ encompass you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This issue of racism is becoming increasingly volatile as time progresses. I do not wish to minimize the struggles of Asian Americans or any other race for that matter. The Bible says we are not Greek nor Jew nor slave nor free man. We are all equal in Gods eyes. This is going to seem a contrast the verse I just quoted, but I feel the need to address this. Danny you made a comment about whites embrassing the whiteness of that particular conference. The problem is that we can&#8217;t. I really don&#8217;t care for supporting race based initiatives for the simple fact it promotes separation. For a conference to embrace its whiteness would be paramount to making it a racist gathering. If that particular conference or anything cites that it caters predominantly to whites then it is labelled as offensive and racist. Whether this be right in the concept that we need to do away with race based gatherings or whether it be wrong that it shows a discrimination against whites I do not know. The one point I would like for people in general, be they white, asian, Hispanic, black, or any other ethnicity is that if it is wrong for one it is wrong for all. If it is wrong for one race to say or act a certain way then in all fairness why would someone engage in a behavior that they have condemned in someone else. I understand horrible things have happened and that horrible things still happen based on race, however the only way to end racism is to end racism, not proliferate it based on our desire for racial pride and a sense of entitlement based on race. That only excels the problem. I really hope that this was received in the way it was sent. I am not attempting to stir up racial prejudices or animosities, I am seeking to stop them, on all levels. May God go with you and the salvation of Jesus Christ encompass you.</p>
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		<title>By: Ally Lee</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1920</link>
		<dc:creator>Ally Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 05:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1920</guid>
		<description>Is Christ divided? (1 Corinthians 1:13)

I pray no believer (who might be weaker in faith than you), read this and stumbled in thought... thinking that now race and denomination matters. Because it doesn&#039;t.

And now, we&#039;re worried about skin color? Are these the thoughts of a believer?
The early fellowship consisted mainly of Jews and (Greek) Gentiles - I don&#039;t think there were many Asian folk there back then. You ready to think the same things about the first ministries?
I admire your desire for the an Asian revival, and being an Asian myself, I actually thank you for your sentiments. But, that&#039;s why Christ calls us to disciple others :)  In hopes that these racial and language barriers can be broken by the powers of God - not built in the hands of men. And slandering a brother&#039;s name is not the way to start that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Christ divided? (1 Corinthians 1:13)</p>
<p>I pray no believer (who might be weaker in faith than you), read this and stumbled in thought&#8230; thinking that now race and denomination matters. Because it doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And now, we&#8217;re worried about skin color? Are these the thoughts of a believer?<br />
The early fellowship consisted mainly of Jews and (Greek) Gentiles &#8211; I don&#8217;t think there were many Asian folk there back then. You ready to think the same things about the first ministries?<br />
I admire your desire for the an Asian revival, and being an Asian myself, I actually thank you for your sentiments. But, that&#8217;s why Christ calls us to disciple others <img src='http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   In hopes that these racial and language barriers can be broken by the powers of God &#8211; not built in the hands of men. And slandering a brother&#8217;s name is not the way to start that.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Ruggles</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1914</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Ruggles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 02:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1914</guid>
		<description>wow.  impressive discussion. I was blessed to be born again at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley (F.Chan&#039;s former church).  Maybe I&#039;m just a &quot;simpleton&quot;, but I thought is was about:
#1)  Love God.
#2) Love Your Neighbor.
Everything just falls into place after that.   I don&#039;t remember race getting assigned a number.  I&#039;d rather be labeled a &quot;(fill-in-the-color or continent) Christian&quot;.... just a Christian.
Godspeed Everyone!
dan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow.  impressive discussion. I was blessed to be born again at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley (F.Chan&#8217;s former church).  Maybe I&#8217;m just a &#8220;simpleton&#8221;, but I thought is was about:<br />
#1)  Love God.<br />
#2) Love Your Neighbor.<br />
Everything just falls into place after that.   I don&#8217;t remember race getting assigned a number.  I&#8217;d rather be labeled a &#8220;(fill-in-the-color or continent) Christian&#8221;&#8230;. just a Christian.<br />
Godspeed Everyone!<br />
dan</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1913</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 18:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1913</guid>
		<description>Race?! Always race. Jesus Christ, and Him alone, is what being a Christian is about.  Is what Francis Chan preaches the truth? That&#039;s it.  While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.  And in response to this love we do the good works God has planned for us.  Asian, European, African, white American, etc., it does not matter.  Bring your own culture, language, etc., to this mission as long as it is done out of a heart that glorifies God and not to glorfy self or a particular race. Soli Deo gloria! In Christ, Chad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Race?! Always race. Jesus Christ, and Him alone, is what being a Christian is about.  Is what Francis Chan preaches the truth? That&#8217;s it.  While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.  And in response to this love we do the good works God has planned for us.  Asian, European, African, white American, etc., it does not matter.  Bring your own culture, language, etc., to this mission as long as it is done out of a heart that glorifies God and not to glorfy self or a particular race. Soli Deo gloria! In Christ, Chad</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2009/06/06/apologies/comment-page-1/#comment-1912</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/?p=928#comment-1912</guid>
		<description>another late comer to the party...

did want to add a couple of things to the discussion:

- One demonstration of Christ&#039;s love is in seeking to first to understand one another before we ourselves are understood, no? I find that hard to do. Even as I clicked on the reply button all I could think about was how best to make myself understood. A challenge for all of us I think.

- There was a group that used to exist at my college just for white people. The point, however, was not exclusivity. The point was to talk about their whiteness, especially to keep themselves aware that being white (or black, or brown, etc) is not equal to being &quot;normal&quot; or &quot;American&quot;.

This group was also a forum to explore the different advantages they got from their whiteness. I can&#039;t remember exactly which book/article prompted them to do this, but it had something to do with the idea that everybody carries an invisible bag with them. Each of us get to put certain things in there depending on our upbringing, and, yes, some of those things we get have a large correlation to our race.

Speaking for myself, I don&#039;t want white people to feel guilty. I just want to know that they know that they&#039;re just as abnormal as I am, it&#039;s just that there&#039;s more of them (at least in this country). I want first and foremost for all of us to look in the mirror and know, &quot;I&#039;m beloved by God and I&#039;m His child through the blood of Jesus Christ.&quot; But second, or third, or at least at some point as they&#039;re looking at the mirror, I hope that the thought crosses everyone of my white brothers&#039; and sisters&#039; minds that, in this country at least, the color of their skin has changed their lives, just as my skin color and facial features have changed mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another late comer to the party&#8230;</p>
<p>did want to add a couple of things to the discussion:</p>
<p>- One demonstration of Christ&#8217;s love is in seeking to first to understand one another before we ourselves are understood, no? I find that hard to do. Even as I clicked on the reply button all I could think about was how best to make myself understood. A challenge for all of us I think.</p>
<p>- There was a group that used to exist at my college just for white people. The point, however, was not exclusivity. The point was to talk about their whiteness, especially to keep themselves aware that being white (or black, or brown, etc) is not equal to being &#8220;normal&#8221; or &#8220;American&#8221;.</p>
<p>This group was also a forum to explore the different advantages they got from their whiteness. I can&#8217;t remember exactly which book/article prompted them to do this, but it had something to do with the idea that everybody carries an invisible bag with them. Each of us get to put certain things in there depending on our upbringing, and, yes, some of those things we get have a large correlation to our race.</p>
<p>Speaking for myself, I don&#8217;t want white people to feel guilty. I just want to know that they know that they&#8217;re just as abnormal as I am, it&#8217;s just that there&#8217;s more of them (at least in this country). I want first and foremost for all of us to look in the mirror and know, &#8220;I&#8217;m beloved by God and I&#8217;m His child through the blood of Jesus Christ.&#8221; But second, or third, or at least at some point as they&#8217;re looking at the mirror, I hope that the thought crosses everyone of my white brothers&#8217; and sisters&#8217; minds that, in this country at least, the color of their skin has changed their lives, just as my skin color and facial features have changed mine.</p>
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