So I underestimated the reaction of readers to the word “sellout.” My intent wasn’t to be sensationalist, but to explore an honest question that crossed my mind at Orange. If any of you had been with me at the conference, we would have thumbed through the conference guide, and I would have leaned over and asked you that exact question to hear your thoughts and start a dialogue. But that one word has been a huge distraction, and I’d like to retract it. Completely my lapse in judgment.
Second, I feel worse about my groundless claim that the conference organizers use Chan to diversify their speaker line-up and avoid race tensions. I apologize for (1) presuming to know their motives and (2) framing those made-up motives in such an accusative fashion.
Thanks to all who commented (nice and not so nice); the feedback helped me understand my own tunnel vision better.
To clarify what I’m saying:
• I applaud Francis Chan for his faithfulness to GOD’s call on his life. Clearly, his life and ministry has blessed the church; I hope he continues to speak and minister to all groups of people.
• I believe race, especially in America, does shape the expression of faith, but evangelicals want to deny or suppress this reality. The black church, because of their experience and faith, found voice to correct the status quo arguments of the white church during the 1960s (please, please read MLK’s Letter From a Birmingham Jail). For Asian-Americans, we’ve uncritically adopted white, evangelical theology, and there are signs this is not a good fit. The most recent evidence: AA youth who attend church regularly are more likely to be depressed than unchurched AA youth, and this is among a demographic that already suffers higher levels of depression.
• I hope hearers of Chan do not mistake him as a representative of Asian-American Christianity. He does not minister in this context, and this part of his identity does not seem to shape his theology in any significant way. I am not suggesting his words lack power for listeners of all races; just that there are unique and distinct dimensions to being an Asian-American Christian which do not concern Chan.
• I wish conferences such as Orange would recognize that they represent white evangelicalism and not the whole church. Either these groups embrace and acknowledge their whiteness, or they find out why their participant demographics are 99% white and their staff 100% white. Instead, the reality of race (or the lack of it) is simply ignored or unnoticed.
• Ultimately, I want to see the Asian-American church participate in the reign of GOD in ways only Asian-Americans can. What does this look like? Great question, and the answer remains evasive (thus, this blog). I would hope that we have something to offer the body of Christ, something more than a facsimile of white evangelicalism or the possession of an Asian face.
Manufacturing labels? Segregation back into the spotlight? Jason, we’re not creating realities, we’re talking about realities that already exist.
And we’re not talking about a different father or a different Savior here, so I don’t understand how that pertains to this discussion. That we have “one Lord, one faith and one baptism” is not in question. I know it sounds like we’re focused on ourselves here, but I assure you that it’s not for our own sake, but for the sake of the gospel in places and with people that you might have little access to, but we do. So this has everything to do with our focus on our relationship with God because it has everything to do with God’s subsequent call for our ministry of reconciliation.
But it does seem as if there is an implication that God has different expectations of different races here. Maybe we should question Joni Ericksen-Tada(sp?) on whether she is the “token disabled person” when she is invited to speak at events. Is she selling out to all her handicapped peers by being the only person in a wheel chair that is an invited speaker? I would like to say “no”, but it sounds like the same type of discussion doesn’t it?
I will agree with many of the above posts in saying that the church universal is a long way from its roots in Acts 2. We have become way too comfortable and complacent in the way we worship and serve the Almighty King. I think I will now bow out of the conversation and agree to disagree.
jason, you bring up an excellent point. and this is definitely a huge point for tripping up when it comes to idolizing a particularity, such as ethnicity or in your example, disability (although i would say that socio-historically, the categories aren’t exactly compatible for the sake of argument).
the point, ideally, of ethnicity and its preservation or perpetuation is not to hold it over and against others, but it is to hold the ground to which we believe reflects the integrity of God’s intent in creating that distinction. quite amorphous yes, but one of the things that this is combatting is the modern ills of colonialism, consumerism and individualism. colonialism is particularly harmful because it causes people to hate themselves or believe themselves to be inferior because they are not white or from the west. thus, instead of polarizing the gospel as a force of uniformity, the gospel should reflect a unity arising from a diversity. and before i get too convoluted, the differences of ethnicity and race matter missionally in order to avoid the notion that colonization and Christianity are synonymous. further, internally speaking, the differences, race and otherwise, allow for correction to a particular dominant theology. for instance, liberation theology is not a systematic theology, but it serves as a corrective, a critique of a society entrenched in only a systematic, but un-self-aware, disembodied theology.
this is why babel is a good thing, to keep us from making idols of what we are capable of together in uniformity, but rather understanding the diversity and being unified within that diversity is a good thing. which is why in acts 2, the display of the holy spirit was not that diverse peoples were unified in language and created a new colorblind, culture-blind people group, but rather they spoke in different tongues and spread out to take the good news to others.
the other way in which differences are helpful is to bring awareness of issues that we are culturally/socially blind to, now if the token disabled person did not call the Christian community to action or at least to insight with regards to how we deal with the handicapped, you can imagine how betrayed that community would feel. now, this is not to say that our song of salvation does not transcend the disability, but hopefully you get my point, if that perspective is not brought up ever, at all, in any conference, then it begs the question. a question that you and i might not be sensitive to, as we are probably both able-bodied, but the handicapped person would and should ask of Joni, why do you not speak for us?
I am an Asian American female who attended Francis Chan’s church for several years. His messages are passionate, humble, and Christ-centered. From what I have witnessed, he lives his life with integrity and truly “walks the talk.” He organizes and sponsors (through the church) pastor training conferences in Africa to equip these pastors with a Christ-centered message that they may bring to their people. I’m not sure how often, but he travels at least once a year to Uganda for this purpose. In 15 years (or so) his church has grown from a few to a mega-church yet his salary has not changed. He and his wife have committed to living their life within their humble means (they have 4 kids by the way)
I realize this has nothing to do what what has become quite an extensive discussion on Asian American Christians/white evangelicalism but since his name came up, I wanted to throw these little tidbits out there. I also realize no one is questioning his passion/integrity/message etc….yet, somehow, there are these added expectations on things he could be doing. I guess I just don’t get this discussion. I simply see Francis Chan as a man who is living his life for the Lord…and I think we could use more like him. All this other talk just seems so unimportant in the greater scheme of things.
Out of curiosity, what have you guys done to further Christ’s kingdom? I know I haven’t done nearly enough….and only wish I could do as much as Francis Chan has already done within my lifetime.
I don’t have all the big words that you do and I’m just a simple gal, but that’s how I feel.
ann – Thanks for sharing from your personal experience. As you pointed out, no one is questioning Francis Chan’s passion or integrity.
I’m not sure if you meant your question to come across in a hostile way (tone is notoriously difficult to read in blog comments), but asking “What have you guys done to further Christ’s kingdom?” sounds fairly confrontational (even with your personal acknowledgment of needing to more). Perhaps this whole discussion points out the need for all of us to tell our stories more effectively because, clearly, you haven’t gotten a sense of what we’re all about or who we are. We might not have the fame or influence of someone like Francis Chan (who, by all accounts, is a great steward of these things), but the NG.AC team is seeking to live out the same path of faithfulness, integrity and genuine desire to love & serve God and people.
Race and ethnicity matter. And it’s not only a question of dealing with racism and the brokenness of the world. We believe that we’re all created in the image of God, including our unique ethnic backgrounds. Scripture says that instead of our ethnicity being wiped out when redemption is fully realized, we will each come to worship Jesus — from every nation, tribe, people and language (Revelation 7:9-10 — http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%207:9-10&version=TNIV).
I hope hearers of Chan do not mistake him as a representative of Asian-American Christianity. He does not minister in this context, and this part of his identity does not seem to shape his theology in any significant way. I am not suggesting his words lack power for listeners of all races; just that there are unique and distinct dimensions to being an Asian-American Christian which do not concern Chan.
Not being Asian American, I’m not sure which dimensions of being and Asian American Christian that you are referring to.
That being said, we are studying his book Crazy Love right now in my Bible study. I can see at least in some measure how his Chinese upbringing has influenced him. And this book challenges the status quo in the American church in a pretty profound way. And yes, by that I mean largely the White American church, though he does not use that term in the book. I can’t help but think that his experiences growing up as a non-white person influenced his counter cultural view that he expresses in the book.
some things that come to mind:
• why does actively participating in church increase the depression rates for asian-americans (see the link in the post)?
• why is AA worship indistinguishable from white worship?
• what does it mean to abandon the faith of your ancestors?
• why do AA gravitate towards conservative evangelicalism?
• how does the gospel speak uniquely to the AA experience?
of course, this blog is actively trying to explore these questions (and others). i did read his book, and it’s an interesting idea to suggest subconscious influence. i would argue though, that his book is simply a more mainstream version of macarthur’s “gospel according to jesus” about lordship salvation. in other words, a person of any race could have penned “crazy love.” it’s hard to say the same thing about “letter from a birmingham jail” (also linked in the post).
again, i believe the influence chan is having in the church is a good thing. my objection is that people use him as an example of diversity and AA christianity, which he is not, nor would he claim to be.
That makes sense. Thank you for your reply.
I’ll first admit that I haven’t read anywhere near all of the comments on this blog post due to a lack of time, and because there are hundreds it seems. I came across the original blog post in a random google search for Francis Chan, looking for a blog of his or something of the like.
While I won’t try to deny that the above mentioned conferences are vastly white, the idea that I’ve seen missing from all of these posts is this: Our faith has nothing to do with color, race, place of residence, shoe size, or favorite ice cream flavor. I completely disagree that Francis’ involvement in any of these conferences has anything to do with the color of his skin — in fact, the only time I can see the color of his skin being an issue would be if he were invited to an AA-gathering. He is involved in these conferences because he is on fire for God, and he speaks with a passion and truth that comes from a relationship with God much deeper than mine.
Am I saying that there isn’t cultural diversity within the church? No. There is cultural diversity within the church, just as there are different ways that people communicate with God. People from the church that I grew up in wouldn’t go anywhere near the bright lights and loud music of these conferences. Does that mean organizers are being closed minded in not trying to include them and find ways to make them come? No, not at all.
What I’m getting at is that we’re all very different. Even two white people or two AA’s. Every conference isn’t going to provide the same draw from every group. But the important thing is that any minority in any group should feel comfortable in any group, because its not what we look like that matters, it is our faith in Christ that binds us together, and is tied in more deeply than any designation as AA or Caucasian or black or Native American or anything of the like.
I’m quite late to this party and I didn’t read any comments on your orig post, nor your apology so sorry if this repeats…
First, I was surprised by your first post, as others seemed to be, but was very pleased with your apology. Not because it did or did not fall in line with what I think, but just because you were big enough to give it! It is so much easier to push through and blame others for issues, especially when they are close to our heart.
I am not Asian but lived as a foreign minority in Northern Thailand for 8 years with my family. I also traveled into many different Asian cultures and for the first time got a taste (very small taste) of what it must be like to be a minority of any kind in the US. God used all that, and our subsequent return to the US culture, to undo our former world view and strip us (begin the process anyway) of any grip on our identity in anything other than Him.
I have a few questions/comments about somethings you said, or implied.
You mentioned the special issues American Asians face in this culture. Are those issues or differences any different than what I face as a white person living below the American poverty level compared to a white person who is rich by our standards? Isn’t the point of God’s discipling us to rid us of our flesh and rely on Him and be identified in Him alone? When I found myself beginning to look at the Thai culture and place expectations on them for how Thai people related to me, I became self focused and lost sight of the fact that I was there to serve them, not the other way around.
Speaking in context of the Body of Christ, when any one group or individual begins to focus on the differences between them and another, they lose sight of the fact that we are to serve each other the way Jesus served us. Jesus didn’t say, “hey, my own Jewish nation and those pagan Romans aren’t representing me…”. He served them, us. Scripture is clear that there is no Jew, nor Greek nor whatever that would include Asian Americans, or white Americans in an Asian culture. You Asian followers of Jesus, as groups or individuals are supposed to serve white people. Period. But, white Russian followers of Jesus are supposed to serve Asian Americans. Just as I am, as white skinned follower if Jesus is called to serve Asian Americans, Asian Asians, and Arab Arabs whether they follow Jesus or not.
One thing that concerns me in this statement: “I hope hearers of Chan do not mistake him as a representative of Asian-American Christianity. He does not minister in this context, and this part of his identity does not seem to shape his theology in any significant way.” NOBODY’S theology should be shaped by our race, our age, or economics or any other thing. Theology is the study of God and letting Him reveal Himself to us, we receive theology as we purse Him, Who is of no racial origin and in now way does who we are impact His truths. I will concede that a special counseling or ministry approach is necessary to penetrate the barriers for rich white suburbia America as it would be to minister to poor Mississippi Delta folks of any race. So if you mean that Chan doesn’t tailor his teachings towards the special issues for Asian Americans, you may be right, but Biblical theology has nothing to do with race.
You said this:
” I would hope that we have something to offer the body of Christ, something more than a facsimile of white evangelicalism or the possession of an Asian face.”
I too hope the Body of Christ in America would release the bondage of white evangelism regardless of the face on it. I don’t know about Orange or the other many meetings you gone to or what they teach. It sounds like your getting the white American evangelism jargon because you’re going to the white evangelical meetings. Go to the Asian American ones, or start your own. The sad this is, even followers of Jesus miss it an we are all selfish and blinded by the prison of our own location in the world, wether that be finances or race or whatever. Those white people are missing it for sure but honestly, while it is their responsibility to be all things to all people, it isn’t healthy for you to put those expectations on them if they fail you. The best you can do is sound the alert and if they listen, great, if not, stop going or start your own. Otherwise you’ll get locked into the trap of using your energy identifying and complaining about what they aren’t doing.
I think if you’ll read and listen to Chan’s messages of late, his message is so radical (maybe simply Biblical?) it really can’t qualify as white, Black, Hispanic or Asian. At most he can be criticized for being too Biblical or radical, but not “too white American”. If the Biblical teachings Chan is teaching now can be found as dominant characteristics of any one ethnic, denominational, or even a significantly sized group anywhere in America, I’d love to know about them so I can visit and see what a modern 1st century Acts 4:32 Body of Christ looks like.
I hope you can find your peace and be settled without white American evangelicalism being what you want them to be. They’ll fail you, I promise. I’m white and they fail me. Let’s keep being in the world but not of it and push and pull hard to draw whatever body we are a part of to live the life of faith and love not found in the world.
I look forward to when we will meet on the other side and be able enjoy each other’s company, and our skin and issues of the flesh will not hinder in any way.
Grace,
Guy
“Ultimately, I want to see the Asian-American church participate in the reign of GOD in ways only Asian-Americans can. ”
Do you want white evangelicals to participate in the reign of God in ways only white evangelicals can? Seems like a conflict of thought here. Orange needs to seek to be more asian sensitive in approaching church while asian christians need to participate in ways only they can. What if we all simply allowed the Holy Spirit to direct each of to indivually be used as He sees fit in whatever situation we find ourselves and not worry so much about a culture that will pass for eternity where there is no jew or greek, male or female?
I don’t see why you see the need to curse on a Christian site. Maybe you should read Ephesians 4 and see if what your saying is really edifying.
amen sister…i am asian too but i dont see how race becomes an issue in serving and obeying the Lord…we truly are one church, we are all members of Christ’s body so please stop creating divisions among us…we are all brothers and sisters in Christ..God bless us all.
another late comer to the party…
did want to add a couple of things to the discussion:
- One demonstration of Christ’s love is in seeking to first to understand one another before we ourselves are understood, no? I find that hard to do. Even as I clicked on the reply button all I could think about was how best to make myself understood. A challenge for all of us I think.
- There was a group that used to exist at my college just for white people. The point, however, was not exclusivity. The point was to talk about their whiteness, especially to keep themselves aware that being white (or black, or brown, etc) is not equal to being “normal” or “American”.
This group was also a forum to explore the different advantages they got from their whiteness. I can’t remember exactly which book/article prompted them to do this, but it had something to do with the idea that everybody carries an invisible bag with them. Each of us get to put certain things in there depending on our upbringing, and, yes, some of those things we get have a large correlation to our race.
Speaking for myself, I don’t want white people to feel guilty. I just want to know that they know that they’re just as abnormal as I am, it’s just that there’s more of them (at least in this country). I want first and foremost for all of us to look in the mirror and know, “I’m beloved by God and I’m His child through the blood of Jesus Christ.” But second, or third, or at least at some point as they’re looking at the mirror, I hope that the thought crosses everyone of my white brothers’ and sisters’ minds that, in this country at least, the color of their skin has changed their lives, just as my skin color and facial features have changed mine.
Race?! Always race. Jesus Christ, and Him alone, is what being a Christian is about. Is what Francis Chan preaches the truth? That’s it. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And in response to this love we do the good works God has planned for us. Asian, European, African, white American, etc., it does not matter. Bring your own culture, language, etc., to this mission as long as it is done out of a heart that glorifies God and not to glorfy self or a particular race. Soli Deo gloria! In Christ, Chad
wow. impressive discussion. I was blessed to be born again at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley (F.Chan’s former church). Maybe I’m just a “simpleton”, but I thought is was about:
#1) Love God.
#2) Love Your Neighbor.
Everything just falls into place after that. I don’t remember race getting assigned a number. I’d rather be labeled a “(fill-in-the-color or continent) Christian”…. just a Christian.
Godspeed Everyone!
dan
Is Christ divided? (1 Corinthians 1:13)
I pray no believer (who might be weaker in faith than you), read this and stumbled in thought… thinking that now race and denomination matters. Because it doesn’t.
And now, we’re worried about skin color? Are these the thoughts of a believer?
In hopes that these racial and language barriers can be broken by the powers of God – not built in the hands of men. And slandering a brother’s name is not the way to start that.
The early fellowship consisted mainly of Jews and (Greek) Gentiles – I don’t think there were many Asian folk there back then. You ready to think the same things about the first ministries?
I admire your desire for the an Asian revival, and being an Asian myself, I actually thank you for your sentiments. But, that’s why Christ calls us to disciple others
This issue of racism is becoming increasingly volatile as time progresses. I do not wish to minimize the struggles of Asian Americans or any other race for that matter. The Bible says we are not Greek nor Jew nor slave nor free man. We are all equal in Gods eyes. This is going to seem a contrast the verse I just quoted, but I feel the need to address this. Danny you made a comment about whites embrassing the whiteness of that particular conference. The problem is that we can’t. I really don’t care for supporting race based initiatives for the simple fact it promotes separation. For a conference to embrace its whiteness would be paramount to making it a racist gathering. If that particular conference or anything cites that it caters predominantly to whites then it is labelled as offensive and racist. Whether this be right in the concept that we need to do away with race based gatherings or whether it be wrong that it shows a discrimination against whites I do not know. The one point I would like for people in general, be they white, asian, Hispanic, black, or any other ethnicity is that if it is wrong for one it is wrong for all. If it is wrong for one race to say or act a certain way then in all fairness why would someone engage in a behavior that they have condemned in someone else. I understand horrible things have happened and that horrible things still happen based on race, however the only way to end racism is to end racism, not proliferate it based on our desire for racial pride and a sense of entitlement based on race. That only excels the problem. I really hope that this was received in the way it was sent. I am not attempting to stir up racial prejudices or animosities, I am seeking to stop them, on all levels. May God go with you and the salvation of Jesus Christ encompass you.
I just think that people have different callings. While many Asian American pastors might share the same goals as you, Francis Chan might have completely different goals. Francis Chan, for example, nowadays focuses on teaching Christians how to become disciple makers, instead of passive consumers at church. I think people with different views and goals make Christianity more diverse (although the ultimate goal should be the same), not just different ethnicities. I don’t know how “Asian” Francis Chan is, but I will feel uncomfortable if he pretends to be “Asian” when he is not. He might be very white inside because of his upbringings, and that’s fine. He can’t change who he is. I am sure there are many Asian American pastors who want to relate to Asian American communities and address issues that affect Asian Americans, and that is laudable. However, I think imposing that to everyone might be dangerous.
The first article was sad, and so is this one.
If this was a group of Black Christian American’s…….or Hispanic Christian American’s…..or any other race where a person could immediately identify the demographic (if that were their focus)………then apparently you wouldn’t have any trouble?
Your article is not about anything but reverse-racism and even racism toward another demographic (Asian Americans). What’s the point? Other than to point out that a bunch of Christian’s, who happen to be white, and ‘think white’ are somehow offending your individual sensitivities toward race and naturally occurring (not forced, not sought after because you say so) segregation?
What we don’t need in this country is one more person who wants to take something that’s good, and make it bad. If you want to make sure that things represent a better blending of the Christian population, then by all means do something about it by organizing your own gathering and ensuring by all means possible that we have the proper percentage of each demographic. But, don’t pick on one or two groups out of billions of American’s (who are trying to do something good here mind you)…..to further the hate or anger that you clearly express………revised or not.
Not to be a party pooper or anything but the whole “Asian American” thing is old news in racial studies.
Just like we no longer have European American as a designation (or African American). Every Hispanic, Asian, Arab, Northern Africans, Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders, Natives of Alaska and America have been systematically separated and designated an illogical geographical location so that they cannot form one large COLOR group (e.g., Tan Americans or Brown Americans). If they did, it would just expose the “hidden” majority of voters which is neither “White” nor “Black” but “Tan.” This hypothetical group would include parts of southern Europeans (e.g., Greeks, Italians, Spanish), Near East, Arabs, Lebanese, North and East Africans, all the others mentioned above.
The “Whites” appropriate the light skinned people of these groups as their own in the government Census, why shouldn’t the “Tans” do likewise? Just comes to show the color system is absurd and used to benefit “White” group and marginalize all potential threat (whether consciously or not). Most likely consciously.
There’s a short article on wikipedia called “Tan Americans” which will probably be taken down due to the controversial nature of proposing another racial color. Check it out while you still can. God bless.
Brazil went through this already. They don’t describe people by geographical/cultural labels, but ONLY pigments. Black, White, Pardo, Yellow, Indigenous. The problem is that when you look into it further, Yellow and Indigenous are still geographical/cultural labels masked as color. East Asia for the former and Natives for the latter. In actuality, there are only three races in the world. Black, White, and Pardo (Grey-Brown).
There are White Asians (Russia, Georgia, Central Asia), Pardo Asians (East Asia/Southeast Asia), and Black Asians (Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia); there are White Arabs, Pardo Arabs, and Black Arabs; there are White Hispanics, Pardo Hispanics, and Black Hispanics (Caribbean); there are White Africans, Pardo Africans, and Black Africans. There are White Natives, Pardo Natives, and Black Natives. Race is a color, not a geographical/cultural thing!
We have Africans, Arabs, Asians, Hispanics, and Natives that are Pardo Americans! And they are all of the same race color. Too bad many don’t see this because they have cultural blinders on, thinking they are separate people.
I’m not getting why race is even brought up as an issue, sorry. As a ‘German-American’ it has never crossed my mind that my race has anything to do with any particular specific expression in the church, or anything to do with what God has called me to do, or who He’s called me to do it for. I did however a few years back get rid of a sweatshirt I had that had ‘German pride’ written across it. I was convicted that I have looked to that as part of my identity with an aire of pride and sense of finding identity in anything other than Christ and what He is making me into. I don’t think it’s any different for any other race, however obvious the difference in appearance.