Is Francis Chan a sell-out?
Let me backtrack to explain where this comes from. I had the chance to attend the last day of the Orange Conference here in Atlanta. The Catalyst people produce this conference geared for leaders of youth and children’s ministries. Lots of NorthPoint people, lots of Southeast evangelical Christianity folk.
I arrived late to the morning session and slipped into the back of Gwinnett Arena, and the first thing I noticed is the sea of whiteness. I’ve been to a good share of conferences: Willow Creek, NPC, even a couple Emergent events, but this gathering of over 3000 people (my estimate) was easily 99% white. When I had a chance to look at the conference guidebook, I saw that the ENTIRE planning staff is white. (For a taste of what I saw, click here for the 2008 highlight video. Chan makes a cameo in there.)
My problem isn’t with white people getting together like this; my problem is how oblivious people were to the monochromatic gathering. And I base their ignorance on the language– both on stage in the general sessions and in breakouts. The presenters do not hesitate to speak for the whole church, failing to acknowledge that they are really speaking for the white church in America. This tendency to generalize their experiences betrays a lack of awareness that their skin color has shaped their faith.
Which brings us back to the opening question. Francis Chan has been making rounds on the Christian conference circuit: Student Life, Catalyst, NPC, among others. The underlying reason being he brings a touch of diversity (he even admits this in an interview). The problem is he’s not yellow! When we long for diversity it is to see GOD’s activity in a different context so that it might challenge our faith. I’m not doubting the truth of Chan’s messages or teaching; just reading the synopsis of his new book sounds very convicting. But none of his theology springs from his life as an Asian-American; I haven’t read the book, but I used Amazon’s search function and couldn’t find one occurrence of “Chinese” or “Asian.”
I don’t really think he’s a sell-out; I believe Chan is living faithfully to what GOD has called him to be. But I do think Chan is being used by white evangelicals to alleviate their unwillingness to engage race and faith. Chan is welcome at these conferences only because his message could come just as easily from a white male.
Sometimes a little diversity is worse than no diversity.
Addendum, June 6: I take back some of the incendiary language in this apology. Does that mean I should delete what has already been written? I really don’t know. Anyway, please read both posts before commenting.
The problem is he’s not yellow!
Someone educate a white girl. What do you mean by this?
Thanks
Judy
Our theology should spring only from scripture alone. Sola scriptura
God says there is no distinction between Greek and Jew……etc….so why do people keep looking at the world through their race/gender/ethnicity specific glasses? Why does it matter what color anybody is?
Some people in this blog are trying to “find” their “Asianness” through the church. We should pray for these people because the Lord doesn’t look for things separate, He provides things that prompts us to work together.
Francis Chan has been the focus/target of this blog without fully knowing who he is, despite having countless sermons that are available for free via his podcasts. In addition, in my interview with various strategic West Coast Asian American leaders, Francis took the time to read my many questions while answering the ones he thought were appropriate, despite now knowing who I was.
Let’s extend our prayers to those searching for their own identity while hoping they will find it when they look in the mirror while finding/discovering that the Lord is standing behind them – whatever decision one makes
While our theology indeed does come from scripture alone, Jesus still was born, raised, spoke, identified with (to some extent) and used Jewish terms and spoke from a particular cultural perspective. That perspective is also needed to understand many of the things He spoke of while on the earth. Yes, His words transcend culture (His words are spirit and life), but He still used a cultural narrative to speak to those within that culture. To say that culture/race is totally irrelevant is akin to denying Jesus came in the flesh. Incarnation demands a cultural expression.
Appreciate the words “To say that culture/race is totally irrelevant is akin to denying Jesus came in the flesh. Incarnation demands a cultural expression.”
There seems to be two topics of discussion, discovering oneself as an Asian American within a church setting and is Francis Chan a “sell-out.”
Regarding Francis Chan, it is disappointing to have an assessment from sources that have limited knowledge of his teaching, despite being widely available through his many sermons that can be found online. It might point to a bigger issue, which is the second subject of this thread.
Regarding culture, the Lord’s Word does apply to all cultures, but Christ’s goal is seek ways where all His People will come together. Finding one’s culture by having a separate “religion” catering specifically to any ethnic group is contrary to what is within Scriptures.
It is ironic that some feel that attending a non-Asian church will automatically lose one’s individual ethnic ability.
This post is ethnic theology at its worst. Truth is truth; truth is not pigmented. We have much to learn from Christians around the world, but we need not throw our ethnicity around like a badge of honor or think an Asian-American is substandard because he doesn’t harp on his ancestry.
wow, completely missed the point there, didn’t you? ethnic theology at its worst? i suppose you don’t consider white to be ethnic then…
do you think ethnicity is just about ancestry? that’s where you show your colors, professor. ethnicity is a present reality and yes, as a God-purposed and designed particularity that resonates all the way to the eschaton (read revelation), i believe ethnicity is oriented towards the future as well. which is why when we ask the question of francis chan, it is a legitimate question for asian americans to ask of him. we’re not asking him to throw his ethnicity around like a badge of honor, we’re asking him not to throw it away altogether. what is up for debate is not the truth, but the ways in which we allow the truth to confront us and redeem all that God had once called “good” and “very good” even. and if you think evangelical christians are at the forefront of racial reconciliation and humbly unraveling the knots of imperialism, white privilege, western cultural captivity, and racism in our congregations, you are sorely mistaken. and what aggravates me is that you assert that we have much to learn from christians around the world, but you scoff at the notion that asian american christians might have something to say. sure, we’d rather keep the consciousness of asians as a faraway land, somehow exotic and “other”. and you would call me myopic for focusing on my ethnicity, but i assure you, my myopia enables me to see your warts clearly too, that’s how close i am. we’re not questioning francis chan’s understanding of the unpigmented truth, we’re questioning how that truth relates to pigmented people. we’re not calling him substandard, we’re asking if he thinks he is. because if doesn’t think he is, he should’ve stated the obvious by now and we would have heard him.
It appears that David fears that, unless there are references to AA culture (along with Black, Hispanic, Indian and other cultures) the message is useless. It is understandable that David needs to be in an environment where the AA references are in great abundance. Most AAs have placed their highest priority on discovering what the Lord has for them, personally.
David has his views on “ethnic theology.” In my personal experience, I’ve had prominent Chinese pastors were allowing White missionaries share that they were saving the primitive Asian/Asian Pacific Americans. Within many churches in Southern California, it is not unusual that American churches have pastors of various ethnicities. However, within an Asian American church – it is rare that a non-Asian pastor is on staff.
David Park states “I believe ethnicity is oriented towards the future as well.” Many people believe that the future will be a multicultural/cross-cultural world. It is everyone’s hope to focus what we have in common (Christ) rather than what separates us (different standards, presuppositions, etc.)
It is interesting that David Park questions Francis Chan while admitting that he doesn’t know much about him, despite many of his sermons that available for free via podcasts. If David truly wants answers, he would listen to his sermons.
Francis Chan doesn’t throw away his ethnicity. When I was conducting interviews regarding the current status of churches that are populated by members of Asian descent, the vast majority of pastors that were asked declined. Pastor Chan read all my questions and responded. David states that he would have heard his views, which is odd since David has not taken the time to listen to his many sermons. People understand that David is entitled to his views and hope that when he is truly seeking answers on Francis Chan – they are readibly available if he is interested.
David’s words “allow the truth to confront us and redeem all that God had once called ‘good’ and ‘very good’ are interesting. Churches that places their Asian ethnicities over their Christian Faith generally have not thrived because these “pseudo churches” have morphed into “community centers” where their ethnicity has top priority. Ironically, many of these Asian ethnic churches don’t know much about their Asian American history (visit http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline.html for more info). What these “ethnic” churches represents is a place where people with common/family history gather where minimal conflicts exists.
David Park states “evangelical christians are at the forefront of racial reconciliation” without acknowledging by many that Sunday mornings are a time where the greatest segregation takes place.
David Park states “we have much to learn from christians around the world, but you scoff at the notion that asian american christians might have something to say” – yet he scoffs at people such as Francis Chan who doesn’t fit his definition. There are great pastors of Asian descent within AA churches (Pastor Ken Fong, Pastor Dave Gibbons, etc) while a fast-growing number are flourishing within American churches who embrace great leaders – no matter what color their color skin.
David Park states “we’re questioning how that truth relates to pigmented peoplem.” The answer to his question is yes. This example might help. At a Chinese American outreach concert, Oden Fong and Brian Duncan/Sweet Comfort were ministering. Oden preface his songs by sharing stories that people of Chinese descent understood. However, both preached the Word the exact same way!
What is sad is that many Chinese/Asian American churches have leadership more interested in continuing ways that they are comfortable (no matter what the results) and ignoring the Christian needs of the congregation.
It would be interesting to learn of David Park’s assessment of the recent partnership of Bel Air Presbyterian with the Japanese American Union Church in Little Tokyo. This partnership has brought excitement and growth to this dormant church. Is Pastor Habino a sell-out? My opinion is that he is a visionary whose focus on providing any means to help the growth of their Christian Faith. The experiment has been very successul, despite the cultural differences. They have found that they many more things in common and far outweighs the differences. If a conservstive and elderly Japanese church can work with a prominent American church, one would think that David could in the near future.
In conclusion, it is obvious that David is in search of something that he cannot define – his Asian ethnicity. Let’s pray that his top priority is finding what God has in store for specifically him.
Hi all,
Finding this whole thread very educational, northern Midwesterner of northern European extraction that I am. (Who’s also blessed with a number of Asian friends, BTW.) “Jeff” recently posted the comment, “Within many churches in Southern California, it is not unusual that American churches have pastors of various ethnicities. However, within an Asian American church – it is rare that a non-Asian pastor is on staff.” Would anybody like to try to explain to me why this is? Thanks!
So Francis Chan isn’t really the topic of discussion. It seems that the focus is more on the assumption that much of American church ministry is done in “white” fashion or to reach the world with a “white” or “American” world view. There is a lot of truth to that, but it certainly isn’t the purpose of any conference to make it that way. More ministers from different culture and color just need to join in efforts and work together more. There are a lot of black conferences. There are a lot of white conferences. No one is trying to make it be that way. It is just a natural pull to join in an endeavor with someone who you feel understands where you come from.
If a church or conference or gathering is to be me more multi-cultural and multi-racial, then they must purpose to have leaders from different ethnic backrounds as well as different worship styles of music. Sad to say, it is a typical American response to say, “what are you talking about?” “I’m offended that you are making this a racial issue”. Friends that is just a way to excuse trying to understand a different, cultural perspective. It isn’t about making this a racial issue, it is just raising awareness that if you don’t purpose to reach a culture, then you simply won’t reach them.
First of all, I am a pastor of a church in Portland, Oregon. We are Revolution Church and we are a very diverse church family. We have people from many cultures and many colors that have many different backrounds. I am intrigued by the discussion because I recently had a friend leave our church because we weren’t “black” enough. What he meant is that there wasn’t enough focus towards reaching the black community. My response to that was this: “Our focus is to reach this community where God has planted us.” Plus, we are a new church so it will take us some time to do better at reaching everyone, but it is our purpose to do that. You see, each community or neighborhood has its own culture and color of people. Francis Chan doesn’t have to feel obligated to speak up for Asians or represent Asians in what he does. He has to reach the culture and community in the area where God has placed him. By the way, I am an Asian American. I am Chinese, Vietnamese, and English. God bless!
Some interesting information to consider that might provide some additional insights and perspectives while considering the status of Christians of Asian descent:
The need for more Asian American Christian leaders was the topic of an article that can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asianamericanartistry/message/15384
In Southern California, a meeting of Asian American Christian leaders in California called “The Gathering” meets only every four years.
Celebrating the non-Asian leaders/pastors at places in Southern California such as Evergreen Baptist Church, NewSong Church and few others – non-Asian leaders at Asian American churches are few. People such as Oden Fong have been leaders/pastors at “White” churches such as Calvary Chapel at Costa Mesa since the early 1970s – along with other examples seen at Vineyard Fellowship and other places during the same period of time.
People such as Hyepin Im (of KCCD – Korean Church for Community Development) should be acknowledged as an Asian/Korean leader who have provided Christian leadership by her direct participation with the Obama Administration, handling racial conflicts affecting L.A.’s K-Town and other issues.
As per a report from a Northern California Chinese/Asian Christian organization, the Chinese communities are the most passionate and the most athesist-minded group.
thanks again jeff for your patronizing and condescending tone, not to mention your poor analysis and personal attacks.
in the future, if you keep directing your comments toward me in that fashion and not add to the topic at hand, consider that your last comment. if you can’t be respectful of others, you can do that in your own space.
To David – it is sad that by directly addressing your comments, as I have done with others, with extra care to lift your concerns with prayer has solicited your reactions.
Everybody understands that facing the truth often exposes a raw nerve that results in various whiplash responses. As shared previously, I still asked people to pray that you will able to receive the answers the Lord has waiting for you. Since you have initiated the thread that started with your position on Francis Chan, supplying additional information to make a more-informed analysis of your request (along with other subsequent) often is the best way to find answers.
I look forward to your identification where my words accurately displayed a “patronizing and condescending tone” – along with your perceived “poor analysis and personal attacks.” If addressing specific topics and/or accountable to one’s words makes one uncomfortable, that is something that I cannot help.
Sadly, it appears that specifically addressing your comments with answers (in the spirit of Christian love) is something that you are uncomfortable with.
I welcome other opinions within this open forum of the spirit and nature of my responses. Everybody acknowledges that accepting truth often is hard.
Still with love and compassion while seeking what the Lord has planned for all our futures.
very well jeff. what else can i say? i pray for you as well.
it is rare to have people give an honest opinion of one’s character and thoughts. i’m glad that you’ve clearly expressed that i’m very much in need of prayer and devoid of love for other people. those things are very true. i am a man in need of much prayer. if you look over the body of work expressed on this blog, and not just this one post, you’ll see that i have wrestled with this matter and its many dimensions for a long time, and i have been humbled by many and encouraged by others. this is a complex issue and i assure you i don’t give “whiplash responses” as often as you perhaps think. what bothers me most about your comments in particular is that you seem to think that this is a very simple issue without need of nuance and that my questions and adamance for thoughtful ethnic identity are misplaced and counter-gospel. perhaps you know something that i don’t jeff, but from where i sit, these matters of ethnicity, assimilation, identity, racism and reconciliation are not as clear as you make them out to be. i don’t have problem with accepting the truth, it’s the pretentiousness that you convey when you say that you have the “truth” and i am somehow refusing to accept it.
we’ve had several rounds of discussion and we don’t get close to being on the same wavelength (and i don’t know why i keep doing this) but i want you to know that while i’m certainly insistent in the particularity of asian american identity, voice, and theology as distinct from the dominant majority, i am not militant nor am i doing this out of adolescent angst. i’m not anti-multi-ethnic worship, nor do i think that anything that doesn’t AA cultural references as “useless”. you go too far when you put words in my mouth as you have before. also, you are wrong to presume a sense of inadequacy or unwillingness to live in harmony with others. i am married cross-culturally, i worship at a multi-ethnic church, and by most accounts, i’m quite content in my asian identity. i’ve listened to hours of francis chan’s sermons. i have been a youth pastor at a korean church. i have been pursuing these matters of culture and faith for many years now and you make it sound like i’m an idiot (a less holy one at that), like i just fell off the potato truck.
listen jeff, i’m fine with disagreeing with you. but please, don’t insult my love of Christ or my intelligence or my sense of ethnic identity or my pursuit of God’s purposes for my life. don’t patronize me. and if it makes you feel better, i have no beef with francis chan. sure, i’d like him to speak for asian americans given his visible platform and his face, but i’m fine with it. he’s doing great work regardless. i don’t think he’s the anti-Christ and i don’t pray for his demise. and for the record, i’m very happy for people like pastor habino. and i hope you can accept that truth.
It’s gettin’ hot in here!! Fa’ real tho’!!
+1 David on the responses and everybody else too. Certainly this post has generated a lot more responses than many, thought I’m not sure why, or rather I’m pretty sure why, but wish it weren’t that way. Ethnicity and race discussion of any kind make evangelicals nervous. Isn’t this focus a distraction from the “gospel,” why do we have to focus on race, and the more we focus on this the worse it is, so can’t we just move on?
Well, I wish the artificial construct of race were not a salient reality, and I wish we didn’t have a history of segregation and legalized discrimination in this country and I wish that racial stereotyping and racism hadn’t accompanied the proclamation of the gospel during the great missionary movements of the last two centuries, and I wish that Euro-American norms of behavior and ways of doing church had not become conflated with the “Christian” way, and I wish that we all were perfectly reconciled in actuality as we are spiritually in Christ, and I wish that I didn’t have to consider the impact on my children of being raised Black in a world that devalues Blackness, and I wish ten thousand other things, but wishing doesn’t make it so and further, in the sovereignty of God, he has allowed the present situations to exist and to persist.
It is God who confounded the languages and dispersed the people at Babel for their disobedience to his command to fill the earth and thus ensured that linguistic and ethnic diversification would take place with the subsequent result that cultures would develop along different lines. It was God who established the boundaries and the times for all people so that they would perhaps seek after him. It was God who at Pentecost inaugurated the miracle that the proclaimers of the gospel were enabled to declare the glories of God in divers tongues rather than those who were foreigners being granted a miracle of translation, it was God who made me (and all of us) thus, and how can the pot say to the potter, why did you shape me thusly, and it is God who declares the vision of people of every tribe, tongue, and language worshiping around the throne in resurrected ethnic bodies at the end of time. And it was God, whose incarnation we celebrate, who chose to bless culture by inhabiting it as a 1st century Hellenistic Jewish carpenter, who spoke a language, and used cultural idioms of his people, and who by his specific participation in one group became the messiah to all.
This stuff matters to God and it always has; from creation till eternity still to come, and we as his followers wrestle with it. Imperfectly, and with clouded vision, “as through a glass darkly,” but wrestle nevertheless so that we might more fully live in light of the glorious gospel of which we are all inheritors. I need to listen to David, and hear him declare the works of God through his own story, his own culture, his own Exodus / Exilic narrative, and I need to know that his story is not his alone — for we are not only individuals but we are families and groups (ethnos) in God’s view — but I need to know that his story has a people and a legacy and a journey behind it.
It appears that Francis Chan is working in line with what he is called to do. Yes there may be problems in the Chinese American community but there are plenty of problems in the community of every ethnicity in this world. The gospel is the only means to transform people and race has nothing to do with it. People need to recognize that they are sinners, that they fall short of the glory of God, that Christ died to save their souls from death, and through accepting his gracious gift of salvation they might be able to spend eternity with God. Only from that realization and change of heart can people really be changed. It has to do with the sinful heart of humanity and only the Gospel can change that. So, it really doesn’t matter if Francis Chan is not reaching out to the Chinese community. Maybe that is not what he is called to do. What does matter, is that he is reaching out and sharing the Gospel to people with the hopes that they might be saved from spending eternity in hell. When Christians get caught up in such minuscule issues that divide and tear down, they are missing the point. This world is passing away. Each heart beat, we get closer to death. What matters is the souls of the people in this world, and that the Gospel is being preached. The main issue is that pastors and people are working towards reaching the hearts of the lost. I’m not saying this to undermine the needs of the various ethnicities or minorities in America. I see that there are problems in many ethnicities. I live in southern California and it is very obvious that many minority populations have great needs and cycles of destructive behaviors that need special attention. But may God raise up people (regardless of race) to come and reach out to those people in their needs.
To David Park
Your described struggles with your ethnic identity are recognized, as noted by your responses that periodically hit your “hot buttons” that solicited certain sentiments. The issue, at its core, is simple (IMO). Application(s) of the answers provided during one’s “one-on-one” relationship with God is definitely not easy because we are all unique and different that requires His timing.
“Ethnicity, assimilation, identity, racism and reconciliation” exists with all immigrant communities. Many of the problems within English-speaking Asian American churches are problems that all churches face.
I do not pretend to (as you have written) to have the “truth.” I am curious which statements prompted your reactions, though it is understood that directly responding to your comments probably is not something you are seeking.
You are correct that I have a simple Faith, though it has been augmented by my studies of apologetics with teachers such as Josh McDowell. I hope that all your described past experiences and education (that far exceeds mine) will eventually provide the means to find the answers you are seeking.
To “elderj” – when iron sharpens iron, sometimes it results in “heated” responses from some of the participants.
I agree that often ethnicity, race and/or stereotyping/racism serves as a factor of separation by becoming the highest priority resulting in clouding one’s vision of what God wants to provide us on a personal basis.
To “Alpha Hayward”
“if you don’t purpose to reach a culture, then you simply won’t reach them” is a thought-provoking and insightful viewpoint. A possible alternative way to view this is that a church/ministry must reach out to meet the needs of the people they are trying to reach. Maybe a more “on-point” answer to your listed question then could be the following: what needs am I not meeting with people, who happen to be Black, within your comgregation.
To “Cricket”
In many English-speaking Chinese/Asian American churches, their selection of pastors/leaders could provides a tangible indication of the importance/priority they place on ethnicity vs Christian leadership
To “Annika”
Within the general Chinese/Asian American Christian communities, there are few problems considering the many requests he’s received to speak. He is called to be a pastor to the people attending his Simi Valley church and to all people. He has guided Cornerstone (his church) to have a great focus on evangelism, as noted by the expenditures of the church’s resources.
Merry Christmas to everybody!
Um.. So are you calling the people that go to those conferances racist??? My youth minster went to that confrance you are talking about.. Any mesage anyone gives most of the time could have come from anyones mouth.. And I went to something he taught at and he mentioned growing up.. And I think was just rude!
Oh and it could have just been white youth minsters cause you have no clue what the students those men were teaching… Plus I like the fact he doesn’t talk about his race cuz he is giving a message on what he thinks god wants told not a message on his Asian culture but you can say what you want to but think about what non christians that see this will think! Were supposed to be lights in this world but instead are debating peoples intentions which only God knows so ask God or the person your talking about!0
Oh and fc might just consider America his people concidering that’s were he lives oh and I went to a student life camp and he did talk about his life and childhood.. Just saying..
Amazing to me that this posting is still receiving attention and is now at 187 with this post.
Listen folks, both asian and non-asian – Christ came to reconcile ALL things to Himself. Why is that such a difficult thing? I am Irish, English, French, German, and recently found out Portuguese and I am a Pastor, so…, whom do I hang with? Whom do I reach out to? Whom do I call my community or body? It is whomever God puts in our path.
One Lord; One Body; One Love! Just start living it out and stop fighting over the scraps – cuz all of stuff is like filthy rags anyway. Stop fighting and start LOVING – let Francis do his thing. If that is what God called him to do, then let him be. He is in my humble opinion doing what God has called him to do. Jonah did not want to go Ninevah either, but God had him go. We are not always called to do what we think WE think we should.
I dont’ want to receive any more follow up comments to this, so.., please remove me from that if you could. It is a bit ridiculous at this juncture. Thanks!
Peace and One Love.
Richie