Comments on: Speaking In Tongue http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/ the collision of faith and Asian American culture Fri, 11 May 2012 11:09:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Lenny Robertson http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1375 Lenny Robertson Sat, 07 Aug 2010 16:00:39 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1375 Growing up overseas, I thought I kept my home culture, no matter what language I used, but according to psychologists I developed my own "third culture" to cope with "jarring" transitions from culture to culture. We did move a lot and I had to develop a basic vocabulary of 800 words in Indonesian just to survive. Later, as a missionary in China, I did the same with Cantonese & Mandarin Chinese. While in Bible college I fulfilled my requirements for Christian service by being a Sunday School teacher to Korean-American children in Texas; some of the children were not fluent in Korean, but the pastor's sons, with whom I sometimes got a ride were strick in only using Korean at home. However, except for the pastor, most of the childrens' parents knew very little English (if any). Back to language across generations, especially when families are uprooted from their home countries, I was put in speech therapy the one year of grade school I spent in the US, because the English I spoke (like my nephews when they returned for good from South Africa where their parents where missionaries for several years) was different from the English spoken in Texas. In fact, I hardly understood my grandmother (on my father's side; my mother, however, spoke "normal" midwestern English, as did her mother) who had a very thick southern drawl. I even barely understood a word my African-American classmates spoke my last year of high school in Texas. Now since I married into the culture, I do a little better, but my wife still has to translate Tyler Perry plays for me, since I just don't get it at first. In terms of my own culture, whatever that is, my Chinese friends tell me frankly that I act just like a Chinese in my social interactions (since two-thirds of my kindergarten & early grade-school classmates—in Singapore—were Chinese, though I never learned ["learnt"] the various Chinese dialects then, but Malay instead—to this day I can understand every word Joseph Prince, the preacher, says on TV, including the [sometimes non-English language] jokes & colloquialisms). I used to get homesick when I heard a Singaporean or Malaysian accent, but I must have grown out of it now. I am now an avid Esperanist. It has been easiest by far of all the languages I have studied. When reading the Bible in Esperanto things jump out at me that don't phase me in English, which have been very efficacious for me. Of the foreign languages I have begun to read the Bible in, I have made the fastest progress in Esperanto, even though Indonesian has a simpler grammar, perhaps because I have heard more of Indonesian. [Ah, some grammarians would want to correct my English grammar to "Of the foreign languages in which I have begun to read the Bible...", no?] It is fascinating to me that a Chinese-Canadian classmate of mine, who went to China to learn her language, says that the switch from initial "n" to "l" in Cantonese which is happening in the Pearl River Delta, where I spent nine years, never occurred in the 4 generations of Cantonese & Taisanhua speakers in west Canada. Also, the native Spanish of Colorado & the southwest United States, as some of you may know, is closer to 15th century Spanish, including vocabulary forms, whereas the Spanish of Spain & even Mexico has changed tremendously over 500 years. At work, I was told a story by one of my colleagues (of Hispanic descent) that a priest from Spain lamented the loss of the spoken Spanish—its poetry & literature—of the 15th century, but became overjoyed when he was posted in New Mexico where it was still spoken by his new congregants. Just look at how Irish-sounding the midwestern version of American English is, compared to RP (that is, received pronunciation, if I'm not far of base—my UK Engish is rusty) in Britain—and Cockney is almost totally unintelligible to me. Growing up overseas, I thought I kept my home culture, no matter what language I used, but according to psychologists I developed my own “third culture” to cope with “jarring” transitions from culture to culture. We did move a lot and I had to develop a basic vocabulary of 800 words in Indonesian just to survive. Later, as a missionary in China, I did the same with Cantonese & Mandarin Chinese. While in Bible college I fulfilled my requirements for Christian service by being a Sunday School teacher to Korean-American children in Texas; some of the children were not fluent in Korean, but the pastor’s sons, with whom I sometimes got a ride were strick in only using Korean at home. However, except for the pastor, most of the childrens’ parents knew very little English (if any). Back to language across generations, especially when families are uprooted from their home countries, I was put in speech therapy the one year of grade school I spent in the US, because the English I spoke (like my nephews when they returned for good from South Africa where their parents where missionaries for several years) was different from the English spoken in Texas. In fact, I hardly understood my grandmother (on my father’s side; my mother, however, spoke “normal” midwestern English, as did her mother) who had a very thick southern drawl. I even barely understood a word my African-American classmates spoke my last year of high school in Texas. Now since I married into the culture, I do a little better, but my wife still has to translate Tyler Perry plays for me, since I just don’t get it at first. In terms of my own culture, whatever that is, my Chinese friends tell me frankly that I act just like a Chinese in my social interactions (since two-thirds of my kindergarten & early grade-school classmates—in Singapore—were Chinese, though I never learned ["learnt"] the various Chinese dialects then, but Malay instead—to this day I can understand every word Joseph Prince, the preacher, says on TV, including the [sometimes non-English language] jokes & colloquialisms). I used to get homesick when I heard a Singaporean or Malaysian accent, but I must have grown out of it now. I am now an avid Esperanist. It has been easiest by far of all the languages I have studied. When reading the Bible in Esperanto things jump out at me that don’t phase me in English, which have been very efficacious for me. Of the foreign languages I have begun to read the Bible in, I have made the fastest progress in Esperanto, even though Indonesian has a simpler grammar, perhaps because I have heard more of Indonesian. [Ah, some grammarians would want to correct my English grammar to "Of the foreign languages in which I have begun to read the Bible...", no?] It is fascinating to me that a Chinese-Canadian classmate of mine, who went to China to learn her language, says that the switch from initial “n” to “l” in Cantonese which is happening in the Pearl River Delta, where I spent nine years, never occurred in the 4 generations of Cantonese & Taisanhua speakers in west Canada. Also, the native Spanish of Colorado & the southwest United States, as some of you may know, is closer to 15th century Spanish, including vocabulary forms, whereas the Spanish of Spain & even Mexico has changed tremendously over 500 years. At work, I was told a story by one of my colleagues (of Hispanic descent) that a priest from Spain lamented the loss of the spoken Spanish—its poetry & literature—of the 15th century, but became overjoyed when he was posted in New Mexico where it was still spoken by his new congregants. Just look at how Irish-sounding the midwestern version of American English is, compared to RP (that is, received pronunciation, if I’m not far of base—my UK Engish is rusty) in Britain—and Cockney is almost totally unintelligible to me.

]]> By: Lue-Yee Tsang http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1373 Lue-Yee Tsang Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:17:23 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1373 Latin? I wish. Now if only I were good enough at Latin to resurrect it with native speakers. The fact is, though, that's not actually the culture I would be transmitting. Latin? I wish. Now if only I were good enough at Latin to resurrect it with native speakers.

The fact is, though, that’s not actually the culture I would be transmitting.

]]> By: richmx2 http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1374 richmx2 Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:21:37 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1374 What's the matter with Latin? It was the common language of western Christiandom for a milenia and a half. What’s the matter with Latin? It was the common language of western Christiandom for a milenia and a half.

]]> By: Brian Barker http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1368 Brian Barker Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:42:45 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1368 Out of interest also? Pope Benedict used Esperanto in his Easter address from the Vatican at Easter. Perhaps this language is ecumenical as well? I certainly get angry when people claim that Esperanto is not a living language. May I ask you to visit http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8837438938991452670 Out of interest also?

Pope Benedict used Esperanto in his Easter address from the Vatican at Easter.

Perhaps this language is ecumenical as well? I certainly get angry when people claim that Esperanto is not a living language.

May I ask you to visit video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8837438938991452670

]]> By: Bill Chapman http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1372 Bill Chapman Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:43:19 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1372 In answer to David Park's question about Esperanto: The Bible (La Sankta Biblio) was published in Esperanto by the British and Foreign Bible Society in 1926. For about a hundred years Christians have been coming together at international events for worship using the language. There are a number of hymn books in Esperanto. Christian Esperanto organizations include two that were formed early in the history of Esperanto, the International Union of Catholic Esperantists and the International Christian Esperantists League (KELI). There are instances of Christian apologists and teachers who use Esperanto as a medium. Nigerian Pastor Bayo Afolaranmi's "Spirita nutraĵo" (spiritual food) Yahoo mailing list, for example, has hosted weekly messages since 2003. Chick Publications, publisher of Protestant fundamentalist themed evangelistic tracts, has published a number of comic book style tracts by Jack T. Chick translated into Esperanto, including "This Was Your Life!" ("Jen Via Tuto Vivo!"). Therre will never be an Esperanto hurch, as such. Christians attending these services in Esperanto remain Methodists, Baptists, Evangelicals, Lutherans, Anglicans, and so on. For a Japanese view and some background information, take a look at : http://www.seiyaku.com/hymns/eo/312.html May I emphasise that the aim of Esperanto is not to make people less British, German, Korean and so on, but to emphasise what we have in common. In answer to David Park’s question about Esperanto: The Bible (La Sankta Biblio) was published in Esperanto by the British and Foreign Bible Society in 1926. For about a hundred years Christians have been coming together at international events for worship using the language. There are a number of hymn books in Esperanto.

Christian Esperanto organizations include two that were formed early in the history of Esperanto, the International Union of Catholic Esperantists and the International Christian Esperantists League (KELI). There are instances of Christian apologists and teachers who use Esperanto as a medium. Nigerian Pastor Bayo Afolaranmi’s “Spirita nutraĵo” (spiritual food) Yahoo mailing list, for example, has hosted weekly messages since 2003. Chick Publications, publisher of Protestant fundamentalist themed evangelistic tracts, has published a number of comic book style tracts by Jack T. Chick translated into Esperanto, including “This Was Your Life!” (“Jen Via Tuto Vivo!”). Therre will never be an Esperanto hurch, as such. Christians attending these services in Esperanto remain Methodists, Baptists, Evangelicals, Lutherans, Anglicans, and so on.

For a Japanese view and some background information, take a look at :

www.seiyaku.com/hymns/eo/312.html

May I emphasise that the aim of Esperanto is not to make people less British, German, Korean and so on, but to emphasise what we have in common.

]]> By: inga johanson http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1369 inga johanson Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:23:36 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1369 biblio en esperanto http://www.yksi.org/~miklos/biblio/index.htm and Kurano/Korano http://www.lernado.it/kurano/ biblio en esperanto
www.yksi.org/~miklos/biblio/index.htm

and Kurano/Korano
www.lernado.it/kurano/

]]> By: David Park http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1364 David Park Sat, 31 May 2008 20:27:51 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1364 Bill -- thanks for mentioning Esperanto. I have to admit, I'd never heard of it before this. I'd be interested to know if there is a church and/or bible in Esperanto. Lue-Yee - I'm so glad you as a linguist chimed in. You're right to say that language and culture are inextricably linked. Then perhaps our little 1.5/2.0 designations (generationally) perhaps could be more accurate if we find some linguistic measurement, which would serve as a better indicator of cultural aptitude/comfort level. Katie - you're right. English is the currency that we seem to have to operate in, but globalization seems to have that double-edge to it. Particularly if we make the connection between global markets, anyone will learn a language for money and opportunity. That's the interesting notion. What's interesting is what happens when people have a theology for preserving what is native...for instance, have you seen the movie, "The Mission" with Robert DeNiro? The Portugese missionaries to South America tried to preserve Indian languages and were successful until the colonizers pushed them out, which totally supports elderj's point. Perhaps then as daniel finally points out, a great role for the ethnic church to play is precisely in all the korean language schools and cultural centers then. i just wish that connection was better and more explicitly stated in church. growing up i felt that the gospel and culture were at complete odds, or at least had little to do with one another. Bill — thanks for mentioning Esperanto. I have to admit, I’d never heard of it before this. I’d be interested to know if there is a church and/or bible in Esperanto.

Lue-Yee – I’m so glad you as a linguist chimed in. You’re right to say that language and culture are inextricably linked. Then perhaps our little 1.5/2.0 designations (generationally) perhaps could be more accurate if we find some linguistic measurement, which would serve as a better indicator of cultural aptitude/comfort level.

Katie – you’re right. English is the currency that we seem to have to operate in, but globalization seems to have that double-edge to it. Particularly if we make the connection between global markets, anyone will learn a language for money and opportunity. That’s the interesting notion. What’s interesting is what happens when people have a theology for preserving what is native…for instance, have you seen the movie, “The Mission” with Robert DeNiro? The Portugese missionaries to South America tried to preserve Indian languages and were successful until the colonizers pushed them out, which totally supports elderj’s point.

Perhaps then as daniel finally points out, a great role for the ethnic church to play is precisely in all the korean language schools and cultural centers then. i just wish that connection was better and more explicitly stated in church. growing up i felt that the gospel and culture were at complete odds, or at least had little to do with one another.

]]> By: daniel so http://nextgenerasianchurch.com/2008/05/30/speaking-in-tongue/#comment-1365 daniel so Sat, 31 May 2008 18:50:29 +0000 http://dpark.wordpress.com/?p=448#comment-1365 David -- Thanks for posting such a thoughtful, thought-provoking piece here. I feel like what you're saying has a connection with the increasing amount of writing I have seen from Christian thinkers about Gospel and Empire. I appreciate that elderj points out the close connection between English-language domination and British imperialism. In this case, Gospel and Empire is more than just conceptual banter. I agree with Katie's question about what, in particular, we mean when we say "globalization." Certainly, there are Christians who would use that word as a justification to crush or absorb other cultures and languages. However, we might also paint a picture of God-given cultural diversity. I also agree with elderj's sentiment that the church should preserve rather than destroy culture. My only concern, though, would be for churches to have a strong theological basis for doing so -- to celebrate their God-given ethnic/cultural identities, rather than just upholding the culture for its own sake (but maybe I'm just being too idealistic). David — Thanks for posting such a thoughtful, thought-provoking piece here. I feel like what you’re saying has a connection with the increasing amount of writing I have seen from Christian thinkers about Gospel and Empire. I appreciate that elderj points out the close connection between English-language domination and British imperialism. In this case, Gospel and Empire is more than just conceptual banter.

I agree with Katie’s question about what, in particular, we mean when we say “globalization.” Certainly, there are Christians who would use that word as a justification to crush or absorb other cultures and languages. However, we might also paint a picture of God-given cultural diversity.

I also agree with elderj’s sentiment that the church should preserve rather than destroy culture. My only concern, though, would be for churches to have a strong theological basis for doing so — to celebrate their God-given ethnic/cultural identities, rather than just upholding the culture for its own sake (but maybe I’m just being too idealistic).

]]>